Curse

romeo_longsword · Feb 13, 2006, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Finally, found the famous Elswyth Recurve, seems really nice, but when I was using it in both PvE and PvP situations, I find it cause worries more then anything.

Thing its, because it drain so much health rather quickly, you really have to be shooting somthing all the time, and switching bow all the time its just a piss.

Espically in situation where you are in the middle of fighting, the switch actually cause a delay, such as, you are in the middle in running away from warriors,you can rarely get a shot in at its full fire rate.

So I dont get it, how do ppl use these things.

moriz · Feb 13, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

you need something that increases firing rate, such as tiger's fury. other than that, you have to switch to something different out of battle.

Valerius · Feb 13, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

bah... there's a thread just like this 8-9 threads down... http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=114144

anyways... have a bow to switch to when outside of battle... that doesn't have a Zealous or Vamp mod on it

when in battle... while attack speed buffs help a lot... there not *that* important

SnipiousMax · Feb 13, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Switching bow's is a lot easier with practice. Just like casters switching out +energy -Energy regain offhands and wands, or warriors switching to an Elemental weapon. Its a tool in a pool of possible tools!

Yanman.be · Feb 13, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

also, a short bow will be better to have a vamp mod on then a longbow

Sol_Vie · Feb 13, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Recurves aren't quite at longbow stats. Barrage always works wonderfully with vamp bows.

romeo_longsword · Feb 13, 2006, 09:02 PM // 21:02

I just find it too difficult to use, you have to switch weapons in and out of combat, sometimes in sticky situations, you are running from mods, or players in PvP, you are lose a large amout of health without realise, and it only really works well under certain situations.

With such limiations, I feel its better off praying for a critical hit then to take the advantage of the life stealing, conditioned to so much looking after required.

Barrage wise, I think its good that you can steal up to 30 HP per Barrage shots, but by the time you are using barrage, you are usually behind some tanks or summon, thats a comfortable situation I would not need to steal any HP.

And by the time you are being confronted toe to toe, the mod, or the player is hitting 40 to 100 + DMG, thats per person, in contrast of the +5 per person from the bow, its nothing.

I think a tool should adjust to suit your style, not the other way round.

But good on you for thouse who can use it well.

J1000 · Feb 15, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Here is how I view these two strings when using the two skills they are most often associated with:

Barrage:

Damage (Vampiric) - highly effective
Health/Energy Regeneration - highly effective

Tiger's Fury or any Increased Attack Speed:

Damage (Vampiric) - moderately effective
Health/Energy Regeneration - barely effective and often harmful

These strings are most effective with Barrage, where the number of targets struck magnifies the damage and regeneration that occurs. Why do I say they are only barely effective with Tiger's Fury? Because even though the regen rate while firing is greater than the one pip of health or energy you lose, you will always find yourself in situations where shots are delayed (when running after a target or healing) and you weren't able to switch bows in time to get that one pip of energy back. For this reason, I find the energy and health gains from these strings to be anywhere from barely adequate to downright inadequate even with increased attack speed buffs. I would be far more willing to use a Vampiric string with Tiger's Fury than a Zealous one, because the extra damage is probably worth the trouble.

Think about it this way. A Zealous bow string with Tiger's Fury increases your energy regen from 1 e/sec to 1.33 e/sec while attacking. Do anything other than attack with that bow on (like Throw Dirt or starting a preparation) and you're suddenly on the losing end of the equation. Now maybe you guys are much better at quick-switching your bows than I am. If that's the case then by all means, go Zealous!

Kurow · Feb 15, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

I havent had a problem with either of these things, sure you have to watch your hp, but its a small price to pay.

J1000 · Feb 15, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

I havent had a problem with either of these things, sure you have to watch your hp, but its a small price to pay.

Unless I have a reason not to, I try to carry a Vampiric bow for the damage. If you carry a Zealous string the difference (good or bad) is not as noticeable, but it's definitely there.

monk muffle · Feb 16, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

for pve always carry dual shot and barrage either way ur gaining ur health back x2 and more if theres a mob and u barrage

Ashram Nightbringer · Mar 04, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

The damage is what you do Vamp for, not so much to heal yourself. Barrage is a must for me though. Even if it is just hitting two, that is +10 dmg a shot with vamp, add more mobs and you get the idea. I use Barrage with Judges and i am loving it. As far as the health degen, at first I thought it was pain as well, I was forgetting to switch or forgetting to switch back. Eventually i learned to have my other weapon slot be empty, that way I know to switch back. Works great.

Of course Im speaking mainly from the PVE perspective where mobs bunch around the tank. In PVP you should prolly get a different mod.

Valerius · Mar 05, 2006, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

In PVP you should prolly get a different mod.

well if ur a noob... then u should i guess... but most exp. players take the 5:1 Vamp as it has the most uses

romeo_longsword · Mar 05, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Its been a while since I posted my questions on using the vamp mod, I have to say I have been using it more then before, spiking wise or in a barrage team, vamp mod its pretty good.

Zerg · Mar 05, 2006, 08:13 AM // 08:13

I hate all vamp

I know it has a good benifit of adding armor peircing damage but I really hate degen. I got rid of victos blade right after I got it.

-Loki- · Mar 05, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

The bow does 5 extra damage that ignores armour and heals you, per hit, and you are complaining about a little -1 health regen that is stopped by 1/2 a second of weapon swapping when not in a battle? You know you have to have the bow equipped for quite a long time for it to do significant health damage while not fighting, right?

romeo_longsword · Mar 05, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerg

I hate all vamp

I know it has a good benifit of adding armor peircing damage but I really hate degen. I got rid of victos blade right after I got it.

I got on with the vamp mod now, it takes just sometime in getting into the habbit really in switchig weapons really.

I only use the vamp mod whenever I arrived at the position I wish to fire from, then whenever I need to move, I switch to another none vamp bow before hand. I know its all been said before, but it taken me sometime to take on this idea and put in pratice.

But I have to say, even after I have taken on this habbit, I dont always use the vamp bow, oftern I do thouse long hours farm, sometimes my alterness is not alwas sharp.

Da Deathblade · Mar 05, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Mending Ftw!!

Quaker · Mar 05, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

I've never seen any clear advantage to using Vamp bows. Considering the health degeneration, they very seldom give you any real health bonus, and they don't seem to do any more OVERALL damage then a good 10/10 Sundering Bow. I've tried both Elswyth's and Drago's (Vampiric) in the Tombs, and I've settled on using my Drago's (sundering) FlatBow most of the time, with a switch to a 10/10 sunder Short Bow on occasion. (This is, of course, combined with Favorable Winds & Tiger's Fury)

I'd have to go along with Romeo's initial statement that they're not worth the trouble. They sound like a good thing, but they don't live up to the Hype.

Jenosavel · Mar 05, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

As to the health benefits and draw-backs of a 5:1 Vampiric mod, if you use a bow with refire of 2.4 seconds, 5 health per attack equals out to almost exactly 1 pip of health regen. So with a Long or Composite Bow you're health neutral as far as regen/degen is concerned.

With a bow that has a refire of 2 seconds (Shortbow or Flatbow), you're actually coming out ahead, at 1/4 a pip of health regen. Furthermore, if you add an IAS buff on top of that of the average +33% (such as Tiger's Fury), you're coming out ahead at .6 pips of health regen.

Obviously .6 pips of health regen isn't a lot. However, to fear a Vampiric mod because it has 1 pip of health degen showing on your bar is silly.

Switching weapons outside of battle is one of the easiest things in the world. The F1 through F4 keys are there and they work brilliantly. A weapon swap takes only one key press. If you're used to using the number keys to use skills (which is a good habit to get into), the weapon swapping keys are already very close at hand and should only take a little getting used to. If you find weapon swapping is what's keeping you away from a Vampiric weapon, do yourself a favor and learn to use weapon swaps. You'll be glad you did if you ever have to play a caster in PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

I've never seen any clear advantage to using Vamp bows. Considering the health degeneration, they very seldom give you any real health bonus, and they don't seem to do any more OVERALL damage then a good 10/10 Sundering Bow. I've tried both Elswyth's and Drago's (Vampiric) in the Tombs, and I've settled on using my Drago's (sundering) FlatBow most of the time, with a switch to a 10/10 sunder Short Bow on occasion. (This is, of course, combined with Favorable Winds & Tiger's Fury)

I'd have to go along with Romeo's initial statement that they're not worth the trouble. They sound like a good thing, but they don't live up to the Hype.

+10% armor penetration against a 60AL target will increase your bow damage (assuming 12 Marks) by a whopping 1.6 to 3.1 damage per attack. Against a 100AL target you'll get 1.4 to 2.6 extra damage per attack. Assuming 16 Marks against a 60AL target you'll get an extra 2.3 to 4.3 damage, and against a 100AL target you'll get 2.0 to 3.7 extra damage.

So at best, we can expect a Sundering mod to give us a +4.3 attack 10% of the time. Under more normal circumstance, we can be expecting somewhere around a +2 damage 10% of the time. Now compare that to a Vampiric mod which gives a +5 damage per attack 100% of the time, and there is absolutely no question as to which mod is better for dealing damage.